Originality

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Originality

Post by riot1man on Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:32 am

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Ya know, I've been thinking. What ever happened to being original with your deck? Seems like today people want to use the latest meta in Yu-Gi-Oh, and although the duels can be tough and give you a workout, there seems to be, for me, a lack of fun with the duels now-a-days. I don't know, maybe it's just nostalgia, but why should we focus on meta-geared decks and not originality? Because all I'm seeing now-a-days is nekroz this and Burning Abyss that and tellarknights.
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Re: Originality

Post by Dat Magician on Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:09 pm

I can't say I agree that xyz, synchro and pendulum has been good for the game. I'm not saying I'm not using them at all or anything but I still prefer other methods of playing this game.

First off, these methods of summoning can bring out powerful monsters very fast and this makes the game more repetitive and boring to me. It's just bam and u have a boss out, where as back in the old days you had to play every card right to get a decent monster out.
Now, the second problem with these mechanics are that the monsters that you can bring out are way too powerful when you see how easy it is to make these monsters. If they are so easy to summon they should have medium strength at most and don't have 5 different effects.
Thirdly, because of these summoning methods being too powerful it over time (what we have today is a result of this) creates power creep in the game, where new decks and cards have to be more and more powerful to the point of being ridiculous.
>Cards get longer descriptions, the game becomes more complicated and it becomes harder for newer players to pick up. Back in the day you could go buy a few packs and just have fun. YGO today has lost its casual style it used to have, and therefore we get less and less new players. I would honestly never start playing YGO if I was a kid NOW.

Now back to the topic of originality, the power creep has led to that only archetypes with their specific support can be the most powerful ones and therefore variety in competitive YGO is very small today. I hate it that the game is in this state today.
It seems like Konami has released too much new mechanics without seeing how they will change the game. Xyz, pendulum and synchro COULD work IF they would have kept it balanced; BUT Konami clearly went overboard and it lead to power creep not only around these mechanics. Unless the entire playerbase boycotts the game and wants it back to where it was it won't change sadly. Well I sure as hell will never play with these autopilot metadecks we have today.


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Re: Originality

Post by Twisted Like Me? on Wed Sep 16, 2015 12:52 pm

i hate the term autopilot deck i get wht it refers to but in the sense of what it refers to every deck is autopilot every deck has a set style witch it plays to sure you can try different styles for different decks but in the end they will still have a style of play and they will run and play the way they are designed to for example i have a chaos shaddoll deck it runs like any standard chaos deck would sending light and dark mons to the grave to summon your boss mons 1 could say its autopilot and in the same instance i have a completely made up burn deck witch a it is expected to burn my opponent and keep me safe until my opponent is dead from burn dmg yet another autopilot deck you can say a deck is over powered yes and it it easy to use but every single deck you could make (asides from a completely random deck tht serves no function) is autopilot.

back to originality its is pretty dead at this point and without completely going away from archetypes or have incredibly splashable archetypes and or other non archetype cards we probably wont see much creativity pop up sure we will see random sparks of genius HAT for example or even Clowndolls and with the new stuff coming we never know wht we might see so while creativity is down it thankfully isn't dead


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Re: Originality

Post by Dat Magician on Wed Sep 16, 2015 1:19 pm

There will always be differences between player's decks but in today's game the problem is that only a handful of decks are played in tournaments.
I would love to see decks like Noble Knights or Red-Eyes see more play competitive but Konami doesn't want rogue decks to win so they make rogue support significantly/noticeably worse. As of now the best way to enjoy this game is, by far, casual playing.


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Re: Originality

Post by Twisted Like Me? on Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:56 pm

true enough i play casually online and luckily irl sometimes and online you get some interesting decks and some meta but thts just what happens online where as irl we've got thrown together decks and semi proper decks and we always have fun matter of fact the only 1 with proper decks at are me and 4 others out of about 16 ppl and even then only 1 has a meta deck


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Re: Originality

Post by riot1man on Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:32 pm

It is more fun with thrown together decks. However, in my opinion, most people don't see that anymore. All they want to do is win, and that's not the point. The point is to have fun and not care who wins or loses.


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Re: Originality

Post by Dat Magician on Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:43 pm

@riot1man wrote:It is more fun with thrown together decks. However, in my opinion, most people don't see that anymore. All they want to do is win, and that's not the point. The point is to have fun and not care who wins or loses.

I completely agree with you and it's just sad that a lot of players are like that today. Hit me up if u want to play goat format or just casual..


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Re: Originality

Post by Nightmare on Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:53 pm

Though to the same point some people find it more fun if they win, not that i do now, but i used to be like that, i do enjoy winning especially if im playing rated, and i'll play burning abyss to have fun, but i'll also play things like morphtronics and rip out 2 quasars a shooting star dragon a naturia beast and boomboxen just to have a retardedly broken field in 1 turn. But just because people are all about winning it doesnt mean they dont have fun, if they didnt why else would they still be playing the game.


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Re: Originality

Post by Lux on Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:55 pm

@Dat Magician wrote:I can't say I agree that xyz, synchro and pendulum has been good for the game. I'm not saying I'm not using them at all or anything but I still prefer other methods of playing this game.

First off, these methods of summoning can bring out powerful monsters very fast and this makes the game more repetitive and boring to me. It's just bam and u have a boss out, where as back in the old days you had to play every card right to get a decent monster out.
Now, the second problem with these mechanics are that the monsters that you can bring out are way too powerful when you see how easy it is to make these monsters. If they are so easy to summon they should have medium strength at most and don't have 5 different effects.
Thirdly, because of these summoning methods being too powerful it over time (what we have today is a result of this) creates power creep in the game, where new decks and cards have to be more and more powerful to the point of being ridiculous.
>Cards get longer descriptions, the game becomes more complicated and it becomes harder for newer players to pick up. Back in the day you could go buy a few packs and just have fun. YGO today has lost its casual style it used to have, and therefore we get less and less new players. I would honestly never start playing YGO if I was a kid NOW.

Now back to the topic of originality, the power creep has led to that only archetypes with their specific support can be the most powerful ones and therefore variety in competitive YGO is very small today. I hate it that the game is in this state today.
It seems like Konami has released too much new mechanics without seeing how they will change the game. Xyz, pendulum and synchro COULD work IF they would have kept it balanced; BUT Konami clearly went overboard and it lead to power creep not only around these mechanics. Unless the entire playerbase boycotts the game and wants it back to where it was it won't change sadly. Well I sure as hell will never play with these autopilot metadecks we have today.

Let's all just take our hats off and praise this guy. I couldn't said it any better.








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Re: Originality

Post by Dat Magician on Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:58 pm

@Lux lol! That did take a while to get up but somebody had to do it


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Re: Originality

Post by Lux on Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:01 pm

@Dat Magician wrote:@Lux lol! That did take a while to get up but somebody had to do it

If you didn't I would lol.

I completely agree with you. I like when I have to pick every card wisely to pull one combo off. You need to play with the cards you get, and today, all of the meta decks hell good searching card about which deck is pretty much rolling about, which is, tbh, destroying the fun and the luck matter of this game.








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Re: Originality

Post by Dat Magician on Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:13 pm

Reessiel wrote:Though to the same point some people find it more fun if they win, not that i do now, but i used to be like that, i do enjoy winning especially if im playing rated, and i'll play burning abyss to have fun, but i'll also play things like morphtronics and rip out 2 quasars a shooting star dragon a naturia beast and boomboxen just to have a retardedly broken field in 1 turn. But just because people are all about winning it doesnt mean they dont have fun, if they didnt why else would they still be playing the game.

I understand that you want to win, but look at it this way. Pretty much anyone can win with an overpowered deck and u get no satisfaction when its so damn easy. I mean come on you can do it over and over again but it surely will get boring. If u go beat a meta deck with let's say Dark Magician, now THAT is something!


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Re: Originality

Post by Angel on Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:16 pm

wow didnt expect so big discussion about this lol
let me write something so i dont make off post:
originality.... is... ummm...great?





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Re: Originality

Post by Pepchoninga on Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:36 pm

Now let me tell ya all something. Magician and Lux the game has evolved more then older players would like to say. Right now a xyz summon is almost as important in your play as the normal summon back in the day. You bring out a castel and thats not the MVP of your deck. Xyz summon and synchro summon right now are something casual, something that people do and dont thinks its that special. You don't really think the game is fun if you wont let the thought that the old days are not coming back. Also on DN there are more power creeps then girl. I completely agree with Dress that everybody finds the game fun in there own way. You will trash talk to a towers turno player but they wont give a shit since they like and enjoy playing with the deck.


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Re: Originality

Post by Nightmare on Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:54 pm

Pep is right about a lot of stuff in what he just said, the old days aren't coming back that's done and gone and we've evolved and learned from it. That being said it doesn't mean you cant enjoy it or play it and have fun with it in your own right.

He's also right about people having fun in their own ways, if you like goat control play goat control, if you like dragon rulers play dragon rulers, if you like to win then go try your best to win, but don't put other people down for it, it wont do you any good and you're not gonna change their minds.

The game did evolve and not a thing in the world is gonna change that. (Now before you crucify me finish reading what i'm saying) pendulum, xyz, and synchro monsters are a standard in most decks you're gonna see now a days if you don't want to see them play your friends play in traditional or unlimited but complaining or hoping and praying for them to go away isn't gonna solve anything either.

Just find a way to enjoy the game be it playing casually, playing rated, warring with the academy or a clan, running in the traditional or unlimited formats, playing friends, playing for fun or playing like a try hard, as long as its fun for you then good. if not then i have one simple question for you. why keep playing the game?


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Re: Originality

Post by Lux on Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:45 pm

@Pepchoninga wrote:Now let me tell ya all something. Magician and Lux the game has evolved more then older players would like to say. Right now a xyz summon is almost as important in your play as the normal summon back in the day. You bring out a castel and thats not the MVP of your deck. Xyz summon and synchro summon right now are something casual, something that people do and dont thinks its that special. You don't really think the game is fun if you wont let the thought that the old days are not coming back. Also on DN there are more power creeps then girl. I completely agree with Dress that everybody finds the game fun in there own way. You will trash talk to a towers turno player but they wont give a shit since they like and enjoy playing with the deck.

Pep you don't get mine and Magician point. Castel is one very powerful monster, and it can be easily summoned in almost every deck which has Level 4 monsters. That's something me and Magician don't like.
@Dat Magician wrote:First off, these methods of summoning can bring out powerful monsters very fast and this makes the game more repetitive and boring to me. It's just bam and u have a boss out, where as back in the old days you had to play every card right to get a decent monster out.
Now, the second problem with these mechanics are that the monsters that you can bring out are way too powerful when you see how easy it is to make these monsters. If they are so easy to summon they should have medium strength at most and don't have 5 different effects.
Thirdly, because of these summoning methods being too powerful it over time (what we have today is a result of this) creates power creep in the game, where new decks and cards have to be more and more powerful to the point of being ridiculous.

Yes, the game has evolved and everybody have their way of fun. But, this is card game, and card game depend on luck. But sadly, the game mechanism has gone too far advanced and the game has became too hard to learn about. I don't tell that I dislike it xyz's, pendelums and synchros, but there is not something which because we all have started playing this game.








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Re: Originality

Post by Nightmare on Wed Sep 16, 2015 8:57 pm

@Lux wrote:Yes, the game has evolved and everybody have their way of fun. But, this is card game, and card game depend on luck.

Luck is a misconception, the game isnt luck based its based on probablity, essentially its math, say you have a deck full of 40 MST's, you have a 100% chance to get MST, 39 MST's and 1 Magical explosion, you have a 97.5% chance to get MST and a 2.5% chance to get magical explosion, now these are just purely hypothetical examples, lets put it this way, you have a deck of 35 cards and 5 pieces of exodia, upon drawing your first cards you have a 2.5% chance to get any 1 piece of exodia, which already seems very unlikely, but then youre left with 39 cards 4 of which are exodia, (bear with me i have a point that pertains to this topic) so say you dont get anymore than 1 piece in your first hand in the very begining youre now left with 35 cards 4 of which being exodia thats 11.5% chance that you can draw one of those 4 cards, now say 15 of those cards allow you to search exodia, thats now 19 cards at your disposal of 35 that can get you him giving you a 54.3% chance that you will get your exodia piece. My point is theres no luck and theres nothing that stops luck all the cards that allow searching just increase your chance of getting the cards you want and need faster. evolution allowed this, even before that there was good probability to get what you want because of old search old draw and speed cards that increased your probability.


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Re: Originality

Post by Lux on Wed Sep 16, 2015 10:30 pm

Reessiel wrote:
@Lux wrote:Yes, the game has evolved and everybody have their way of fun. But, this is card game, and card game depend on luck.

Luck is a misconception, the game isnt luck based its based on probablity, essentially its math, say you have a deck full of 40 MST's, you have a 100% chance to get MST, 39 MST's and 1 Magical explosion, you have a 97.5% chance to get MST and a 2.5% chance to get magical explosion, now these are just purely hypothetical examples, lets put it this way, you have a deck of 35 cards and 5 pieces of exodia, upon drawing your first cards you have a 2.5% chance to get any 1 piece of exodia, which already seems very unlikely, but then youre left with 39 cards 4 of which are exodia, (bear with me i have a point that pertains to this topic) so say you dont get anymore than 1 piece in your first hand in the very begining youre now left with 35 cards 4 of which being exodia thats 11.5% chance that you can draw one of those 4 cards, now say 15 of those cards allow you to search exodia, thats now 19 cards at your disposal of 35 that can get you him giving you a 54.3% chance that you will get your exodia piece. My point is theres no luck and theres nothing that stops luck all the cards that allow searching just increase your chance of getting the cards you want and need faster. evolution allowed this, even before that there was good probability to get what you want because of old search old draw and speed cards that increased your probability.

That Math :c

You're right there. Yet, I like to call it luck. Because, you can't always hold your back on numbers. Sometimes only option you got left is to hope that your next card will be the one you need, no matter what numbers say Wink








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Re: Originality

Post by riot1man on Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:34 pm

Rees, you can break the numbers, but even then it's still luck. Just because you got the numbers, doesn't mean they'll go in your favor. As Lux said, it's all about hope, and believing in the heart of the cards (the last part is from me).


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Re: Originality

Post by Nightmare on Wed Sep 16, 2015 11:49 pm

Yes number aren't going to be in your favor you have an 11.5% chance that you'll get your cards that means you have an 88.5% chance that you're not, plain and simple 11.5% < 88.5% probability is numbers, luck has nothing to do with it, its random at the core you just have a slight chance that you'll get ones you need as apposed to getting ones you don't.


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Re: Originality

Post by Lux on Thu Sep 17, 2015 6:57 am

Reess looks like we got different opinions about this. You are thinking about possibillity to draw one (or more) cards. I'm just thinking about the simple luck (For example, drawing one BLS when there's 30 cards in your deck is simply luck). Just like if you're gonna roll the dice, there's 1/6 possibily to get every number.








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Re: Originality

Post by Dat Magician on Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:30 pm

Just to clear things out I'm well aware that the game won't go back to how it was. It still doesn't take away the fact that ygo today lacks the originality and fun factor u had back in the day. Nowadays its just spamming a bunch of monsters, where as back in the day u could have those special dark hole top deck moments that changed the match. Majority of the decks I face on DN are of the big 5, without them alone originality wouldn't be much of a problem.


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Re: Originality

Post by Nightmare on Thu Sep 17, 2015 2:48 pm

Originality was never really a thing people always have and always will copy the best of the best, it happens in any game all the time, if the best call of duty player plays with this one gun everyone will use that one, best player of forza uses this one car, everyone will use it, top league of legends players use these champions __,__,__,__,__,__,__,__,__ they become meta everyone uses them, best mtg players use the __,__,__,__ decks everyone is gonna try to make them, same goes for yugioh it happens everywhere all the time, originality is a farse especially when it comes to competative play.

As for topdecking that one special card to win you the game, that still happens, it happens to me all the time, decks are just getting better at it. Special top decks arent that special because you anticipate them now.


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Re: Originality

Post by Twisted Like Me? on Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:23 pm

ill argue a bit for mtg on tht 1 rees yes a lot of ppl copy top decks but in competitive play for mtg you get a gr8 deal of creativity because of what is available to players so much so that you could see any format legal deck win a tournament sure you might see some similar decks float around thts usually just because there either popular or because they are just that good but mostly there is a huge variety of deck in mtg competitive play for example eldrazi and ally's are going to be big in the next few events because there getting re-introduced into format legality and both were quite powerful/popular when originally released but when the next booster block (mtg booster usually follow a block where 2-3 booster sets will mesh with each other) comes out ull see that fade away and so on and so on you have a point tht popular and powerful tournament winning decks will be copped but with the variety of whats out there it takes quite a bit of creativity, building and testing to get a winning deck that and because mtg doesn't have archetypes we are a lot freer on what can make up a deck and make it run well


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Re: Originality

Post by Lux on Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:39 pm

Whoa is this topic finally coming to end?








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Re: Originality

Post by riot1man on Thu Sep 17, 2015 10:25 pm

I don't know, hope not. I created this topic; plus, if anyone who is new wants to add their two cents in, hopefully this is open so they can


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Re: Originality

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